piper cheyenne 400ls problems
A true performer (Single Pilot) that resembles Jet Performace for half of the fuel burn and operational cost. What Does a Pilot Require To Remain Current in an Aircraft Requiring a Type Rating? Environmental systems, including the cabin blower, heater and air conditioning, fuel systems-including fuel line chafing, landing gear and horizontal stabilizer/elevator were the elements causing the most frequent reports. and apparent space. Big PT6-135As, bursting with 750 horses each, can be bolted onto the Cheyenne I. Problem with instalation. The problem is this: At the top of a phugoid cycle, the angle of attack is high, and the SAS pulls forward on the yoke. My most trusted advisor is Bill Turley, a friend for 25 years and owner of our maintenance base, Aircraft Engineering in Bartow, Florida. My boss did the same: I wanted the King Air, but it was too costly then. Taking your Cheyenne to just any good technician could result in missing one or more procedures. 0000002458 00000 n But unless something wonderfully unforeseen happens to our finances, I just dont have the cash. Even at that, parts are an issue for me. The rules require that the pull be roughly proportional to the speed displacement; i.e., a 20-knot displacement from trim speed will require twice as much control pressure as a 10-knot deflection. For an aging airplane, the Cheyennes have remarkably few major maintenance problems or airworthiness directives. It is noteworthy that there have been few reported problems with corrosion. g,!NA4 Back in 0000013531 00000 n Who are you using for service, and are you having trouble getting parts? My first instinct was to check the autopilot wasn't on. Two engines being a must, I quickly honed in on two aircraft, both with the more efficient Garrett engines: the Cessna Conquest II with TPE331-10s, and the Cheyenne 400LS with TPE331-14s. It pays to experiment (but dont judge the affects just by the pilots reaction. Why is the hourly cost so high when only burning 60gph? At any speed less than 130 knots, the aircraft starts to oscillate. H|T{PTWesWwFM}j( * This means the pilot must either hold the brakes until full power is achieved, or duck-walk down the runway on takeoff. Pipers Cheyenne 400LS is one of those rare airplanes that has few compromises. Some of the original Cheyenne tooling was lost and this limits Piper's ability to fabricate replacement parts. Magginetti mentions cabin heaters, torque indicating systems and the PA-31Ts SAS as systems that require higher than average attention. 0000093501 00000 n The Navajo airframe was fitted out with 620-shaft-horsepower Pratt & Whitney PT6A-28 engines, given a pair of 30 gallon wing-tip fuel tanks, and certified in May 1972. Weve done the interior its still beautiful and painted the airplane in colors we like. This forward movement of the airplanes empty-weight CG, along with a climb power limitation of 500-shp, allowed the IIXL to be certified without the stability augmentation system. Of course, high on the list of importance is speed. The cheapest B models seem to hover around $1.4 million. In one of the other forums, someone was asking about classic Lears vs Falcon 10. Oh, my, would I love one. quickly at rotation speed where a firm rearwards application of the column 0000052368 00000 n The oil is going out the breather tube, and the evidence is all over the underside of the right wing. 0000109100 00000 n With a full fuel capacity of 3,825 pounds, a fuel load of 2,750 pounds allows an hour of IFR reserve accommodating 1,300 pounds of payload for this typical trip. trailer On the other hand, we were totally unprepared for the $4,000 annunciator-panel repair, the frequent heater and air-conditioner repairs and the little valve that controls the bleed air pressure to the boots and gyros that goes for $6,500 and sits under the floor in the passenger compartment. 0000094191 00000 n N7222F boasts RVSM approval, ADSB-In and Out, Garmin Active Traffic, weather radar, two G600s and two GTN750s completely integrated with the original jet-level Collins APS 65 Autopilot, bringing its automation to 21st century standards. In general, It is powered by PT6A-135s rated at the same 620 SHP as the Cheyenne II but features a stretched fuselage. Visibility from the cockpit is a real shortcoming until the 1980 model year. I find an airplane I like, switch to flightaware.com and check out the ground speeds on several trips. Engine limiters take care of torque and temperatures with minor pilot input, if any. Many aircraft including the 400LS were put to the wayside never to be manufactured again. 0000013013 00000 n One of the most annoying features of the Cheyenne was the Janitrol combustion heater which, although thermostatically controlled, was either on or off. A number of pilots have commented on the pitch sensitivity of the original Cheyenne during maximum power climb, with cg toward the aft limit and in approach mode. Great aircraft, fast, long range and goes high had several times after traffic was given as twin turboprop at FL 410 disbelieving B747 drivers. Hb```f``Ib`e``bg@ ~6 x,2{q/l&EG%4-6_2FbTo`m7?$ L^'@dXD&'imi^;P w&8,% > endobj 20 0 obj << /ProcSet [ /PDF /Text ] /Font << /F2 45 0 R /F3 25 0 R /F4 22 0 R /F6 29 0 R >> /ExtGState << /GS1 50 0 R >> >> endobj 21 0 obj << /Type /FontDescriptor /Ascent 723 /CapHeight 713 /Descent -262 /Flags 70 /FontBBox [ -202 -288 1146 962 ] /FontName /HDBFEK+JansonText-Italic /ItalicAngle -15 /StemV 77 /XHeight 448 /CharSet (/l/u/m/C/w/o/d/c/comma/y/p/a/e/four/S/hyphen/g/f/n/A/period/r/space/h/qu\ oteright/s/i/L/t/zero) /FontFile3 23 0 R >> endobj 22 0 obj << /Type /Font /Subtype /Type1 /FirstChar 1 /LastChar 30 /Widths [ 259 685 315 667 389 389 296 444 259 407 519 519 463 278 296 259 463 500 370 407 315 463 778 667 519 519 611 556 259 259 ] /Encoding 26 0 R /BaseFont /HDBFEK+JansonText-Italic /FontDescriptor 21 0 R /ToUnicode 27 0 R >> endobj 23 0 obj << /Filter /FlateDecode /Length 3744 /Subtype /Type1C >> stream Uploaded: 2022-07-05. Most of the pilots involved in the reported accidents and incidents held ATP or commercial certificates; eight of the total held private licenses and one, a fatal accident, was flown by a student pilot. 0000014139 00000 n Gear and flap speeds are sufficiently high to fit in to a wide range of traffic situations. Torque limiters protect the engines from injudicious applications of power And the TBM? apart from improving ground clearance, will increase the maximum speed The eighth seat sits partly in front of the door and partly in the rear cabin baggage compartment. As interior improvements, including cockpit redesign and increased windshield area, were made, all occupants benefited. The difference between the left front seat and a cabin chair can be substantial, especially if propeller-induced vibration is being transmitted from the aft fuselage). Indeed, the 1980 Cheyenne, which was Record HolderWith its six-pound weight to horsepower ratio, well in excess of the Extra 300 competition acrobatic plane, General Chuck Yeager set the time to climb record in the 400LS in the mid-1980s. The chevenne 400 Ls turboprop Air Craft top speed 350 knots with 4 blade perpller . The aircraft is operated by private individuals, companies and executive charter operators. Single pilot, fast, can haul, mx and acquisition cost cheaper then a king air. Its possible to fill up all eight of the IIXLs seats (with 170-pounders, that is), put 200 pounds each in the nose and aft baggage areas, still be within the loading envelope, and be just 20 gallons shy of full fuel. A review of briefs of the 56 accident and incident reports a typical five-year period include eight fatal accidents, two of which were in commercial T-1040s. endstream endobj 268 0 obj <>/Filter/FlateDecode/Index[6 175]/Length 29/Size 181/Type/XRef/W[1 1 1]>>stream Deliveries began in early 1974 - a long time These are redlines at With trade-in for our cores and the appropriate certification, we could probably do the exchange for $270,000, less than the projected cost of overhauling our -11 engines. Today, the 400LS averages a purchase price under $1 million, with total fixed and variable hourly operating expenses of $1,500. I do know that when Piper modified the Malibu to make the Meridian, there were substantial changes. Or both. This is better than the Extra 300s 6.3 pounds/horsepower and the 7.3 pounds/horsepower of the spirited Beechcraft King Air F90. It can operate out of 3,000ft (900m) runways with a 97kn (180km/h) minimum control speed, similar to a King Air 300; it can operate from much shorter hot and high runways than a Citation I and landing is shortened by the rotating speedbrake effect of the propellers in beta pitch. and there are built in data recorders. 0000094113 00000 n How about a young-engine Cheyenne II with its stability augmentation system that makes buyers be wary? Textron Aviation Marks Delivery of 400th Citation CJ4 Gen2, Boeing Reports First Quarter Net Loss on Higher Revenue, House Hunting As a First-Time Airplane Owner, Single-Engine Turboprop Commercial Ops in the EU Still in a Tangled Web, Aura Aeros Integral S Moves Closer to Its First Flight, General Aviation Has a Great Sustainability Story To Tell. By early models, we mean the original Cheyenne (later renamed Cheyenne II), the Cheyenne IA, and the stretched Cheyenne IIXL. They should be in maintenance costs, as well, so long as they are properly operated and maintained. The Cheyenne IA was introduced in 1983. This is an invitation to disaster, because it can easily put weight too far aft. 0000093845 00000 n ttheir failure to develop a range of business jets which may have been In that same year, the interior was improved. is to then power up to 30 percent torque against the brakes. All provide enough options to permit loading (or off-loading, as the case may be) to keep weight and balance within the limits. basically a re-engined piston pressurised PA-31P Navajo. With just 20 sales, the IA is the rarest Cheyenne. It is derived directly from the popular III series but utilizes powerful TPE331 engines with four blade propellers which produce faster airspeeds than its predecessors! 820 degrees C and it is necessary to have fingers poised over the fuel Many of the problems are reflected in service letters, bulletins (and, frequently, remedial kits. Wonderful article, I have been looking, doing my homework on what aircraft I want to purchase. Many products featured on this site were editorially chosen. As to the latter, the bluebook says $120,000 to $160,000 per side, and thats a lot, but Ive heard horror stories some apocryphal suggesting that once the engine is opened, it is not uncommon to hear that the price has escalated. When I am not working, eating or sleeping, you can find me there. Twin engine turboprop aircraft produced 1979-1993, "PA-42" redirects here. surprised by the heavy controls. In 1978, Piper came out with another version of the Cheyenne, the Cheyenne I. The airplane has two imposing TPE331-14 engines, each capable of producing 1,600+ SHP de-rated to 1,000 HP at its five-bladed MT propellers. The McCauley Accessory Division of Cessna offers a propeller conversion kit that-according to the company-reduces interior noise and improves performance. Used Turbine Review: Cheyennes: The I, IA, II, AND IIXL He writes about his enthusiasm for both the machines and the people who fly and maintain them. 0000022484 00000 n HUMo@W19t]TYjP &1=HR HucfsO%pH/PKI-Ac@UMVpV" euht/V.:zM#5&&N3Degj\_4%:!8OPqbU:~077fa@" Y Theres no question that the Meridian is a lot smaller than our Cheyenne. My usual response is to change the subject and make her a martini. The PA-42 Cheyenne III was announced in September 1977. 1C::_DbFgQPF:y$mtC1EwBR}Ui`*DQh&KSPm{hnh'ZSO,4E=Tg:v(Npx.:I'=. Think it would meet your range requirements. There is a lot to recommend the single turboprops. It is an aeroplane that dies everything well. ADCAAAv3X23,ft0>!A ,/dtD'0` lC$hPgso25M```-'AAy6cl 33f\5Q[7nlSzRNL`@%#K .2, Y7o The I is approved for a maximum of seven seats. However, the whole family lived up to the Piper reputation of offering a lot of airplane for the money. Garrett TPE 331-engined airplanes, such as the Aero Commanders, Mitsubishi MU-2s or even Swearingen (Fairchild) Merlin II and III models are a totally different category and set of considerations. So here is a brief scorecard. Piper was never noted for sophisticated engineering. In 1981, auto-ignition was first offered as an option. On the other hand, one engine burns less gas, has only one prop, etc. The Cheyenne II came equipped with a total of eight seats, and in my opinion it should not have been equipped with the eighth-the rearmost seat. Have you ever heard of a King Air with Garrets. This trait can be traced to the Cheyennes roots in the Navajo airframe. They have trouble getting repair parts to keep those planes flying too. long wheel base Land Rover). At 13% Ng, the engines light We knew they were coming and prepared for them. The majority of the flights were flown above most airliners in comfort, style and at a fuel cost less than economy class tickets for the same itinerary. It still does. On the longitudinal axis, bobweights and downsprings are the most common. Handling While the basic nature of inertia and mass can make a Cheyenne a lumbering handful for pilots used to lighter airplanes, within their category they are responsive and nimble. [2], In the late 1970s, Piper avoided developing a clean-sheet light business jet to compete with the Cessna Citation I and upgraded its PT6As from 720 to 1,000hp (540 to 750kW) Honeywell TPE331-14s. 0000000016 00000 n However, the Cheyenne Is changes allowed the airplane to be certified without a stability augmentation system. 0000013091 00000 n I've flown Piper Cheyenne I, II XL and 400LS a number of years ago. The lack of suitable piston engines, however, was a major factor in the failure of Pipers own Fat Albert, the Pocono. Ive never flown one and am not sure how I feel about taking a Malibu and bolting a PT6 on the front of an airframe designed for a 350 horsepower piston. Flew one of these from Seoul, South Korea to the US (via Eastern Russia). Another good source is Mike Shafer, president of Mercury Aircraft Sales in Sarasota, Florida. In that later issue, Kelly discusses a further change to the system Piper made with the 1980 model year: the addition of a bobweight to dampen long-period longitudinal oscillation tendencies. Start your free trial today! The original version of the SAS addressed this problem, but the bugaboo of dynamic stability remained. 1 answers and 1796 views Feb 23 2020. The Cheyenne 400 is that rare exception to the compromises required in aircraft design. As per the fifth paragraph in this article, 351 KTS at 25,000 feet (or 290 KTS at 41,000 feet) on 60 gallons of Jet A/hour, and a range of 1,800-plus nm with IFR reserve. And yes, when Pratt & Whitney (now Pratt & Whitney Canada), manufacturer of the PT-6 went on strike during Beechcrafts production of the A-100 King Air, Beech made the necessary modifications to the airframe to accommodate the Garret Engine, calling it the B-100. Believe it or not, it felt good; I felt I was being a good steward of the airplane. In the 400LS, they are flat rated to 1,000 shaft horsepower per side, and can make that power all the way up to about FL200depending on temperature. If maximum cabin space is an issue, the IIXL is the best bet. strengthened and lengthened, the props are huge paddle-blades with a While there are variations with equipment options, when lightly loaded cg is toward the forward limit and the airplanes are nose heavy. 0000013910 00000 n AGREE! The cabin is fine for three or four passengers even on longer flights, especially with the club seating arrangement. Here is one more: if you dont have the time and money to spend on learning what is required and then doing it, stick to your local rent-a-wreck for your aviating needs. An angle of attack sensor on the right side of the nose measures and transmits angle of attack to a simple computer which commands a servo to vary downspring tension. This in turn causes a steep pull-up at the bottom of the oscillation, resulting in a steeper climb and lower speed at the top, which means a higher angle of attack, which means a sharper pull by the SASand so on. This thread reminds me of the day that I decided to buy a Huey. Epsilon . In 1975, he acknowledged many shortcomings and promised major improvements would take place in quality control and customer support. Wing-tip fuel tanks were standard with this airplane, and so were redesigned engine air intakes and elongated exhaust stacks. In Sum By the time the program ended, the Piper Cheyenne series offered good all-around performance, good use of interior space and competitive systems. The Navajo is arguably one of the best cabin-class twins, but its airframe was designed for 300-HP piston engines, not turbines that are both far more powerful and much lighter. Many of the systems are not as well designed and organized as in later airplanes and because of the affects of age (not to mention abuse and neglect). The IIXL is the winner in terms of payload/range and loading envelope. Most can be laid to insufficient knowledge of systems, lack of proficiency, failure to use check lists and other human performance issues. 0000093310 00000 n PAY4 Executive transport aircraft. The SAS is essentially an addition to the flight controls that is supposed to overcome the poor static stability of the original airplane. In December, the plant was shut. Your email address will not be published. Our company operated a Cheyenne II for almost three years, and I was principal pilot in the airplane for about 300 hours. Design work began in 1965 (the PA-31P pressurized Navajo was in development at the same time). Still, thats a lot more money than overhauling the engines on our airplane. The company painted a Cheyenne demonstrator in a blueprint format to point out all the technical advantages Piper marketing people perceived for the design. An angle-of-attack sensor is mounted on the nose, and is connected to a downspring. The starter-generators are 1,000-hour scheduled maintenance events. To the pilot, such an airplane will have a normal feel. ground clearance of a meagre eight inches. They can be awful tempting given the low purchase price, but they are priced that low for a reason. Interior cabin space is a frequent criticism. This same engine takes seven seconds to go from idle to full power. More powerful and faster airliner development of PA-42-720 Cheyenne 3. Photo date: 2022-04-23. 0000042281 00000 n As a result, the aircraft can travel more than 2,000 nm in a long-range cruise. business class section of a Boeing 727. At altitude, you can pull the miserly Garrretts back to about 400 lbs (60 gallons) per hour for long-range cruise. Browse a wide selection of new and used PIPER CHEYENNE Aircraft for sale near you at Controller.com, the leading aircraft marketplace. Below FL 180, the aircraft tends to become more stable, but the phugoid instability is still obvious, and with each oscillation it becomes worse. This presents no problem, but I can see how an inexperienced pilot could find himself a trifle overwhelmed by either the extra speed or the oscillations. 0000012150 00000 n Login Dealer Login Register . 0000007543 00000 n You've disabled cookies in your web browser. the company would, completely out of character, do something either Apparently, any True! Are these big-engine Cheyennes as fast as they say? Of course, wed have only 1,500 hours to go before the same questions came up again. In the former category there are several variations to pick from, and the subtleties can keep you awake at night. Electrical power is supplied by a 28 volt, direct current, negative ground electrical system. Frequently it would fail to light up during climbout or at cruising altitudes. after the King Air was launched. In the normal category all aerobatic maneuvers including spins are prohibited. The record shows that, when it comes to safely stepping up to turboprops, there is simply no substitute for a regimen of structured recurrent training. A week or so after flying this I flew a Kingair200 thought on initial T/O that there was something wrong as acceleration was so slow compared to the 400LS. Those in the market for a used, entry-level turboprop twin have a lot of choices these days. Only 24 -31T3 commuters were built in the roughly two year life span of the design. been approved for five bladed scimitar propellers from Hartzell, which I remember reading a Richard Collins column years ago in which he described the number of yellow legal pads he used up while deciding on the Cessna P210 he ultimately bought and flew for 8,000 hours. claim might be true. legal hyenas and their pursuit of product liability claims. 0000296378 00000 n What is the max speed with the larger engines and range. The Cheyenne, according to the accident brief, hit the ground while in a vertical dive. Viewed from the front, the 400LS has perhaps the most exemplary impression of raw power of any airplane. In ground handling and during cross-wind operations it is especially troublesome, since it fights the desired control inputs. Piper is a strange company. But Ill tell you honestly, I still crave that 400LS! And archaic autopilots can represent in-flight hazards if they are not meticulously maintained and rigged. 0000022670 00000 n The dominating features are the pair of broad Dowty No surprises there. A third-party browser plugin, such as Ghostery or NoScript, is preventing JavaScript from running. Maximum operating weight is 500 pounds higher than the Cheyenne II. 0000008972 00000 n The SAS would not have been necessary were it not for the Cheyennes poor static longitudinal stability. The Cheyenne 400LS is usually configured to seat a pilot and seven passengers with an additional passenger occupying the right seat on the flight deck, if desired.
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